Ray Kelly

L.G.: Now you have a reputation of being a micromanager-that there's very little you won't put your hands into.

R.K.: If you think you can micromanage 52,000 people, you're crazy. I think there are certain things you have to pay attention to more than others because it has to do with integrity, to do with the reputation of the organization. So there are certain issues that you have to look at more closely than others. I would say micromanagement by definition is not good or bad, it is situational. It depends where you find yourself, and the instrumentality that you have to carry out the policies.

L.G.: Is it important to you to let the people who work for you do their jobs without too many drive-by management decisions?

R.K.: It depends on the issue, and it depends on the person. Because, ultimately, what happens in the police department has an impact on me. People see me as the face of the department, so there are certain areas and certain functions that I'd have to pay particular attention to.

L.G.: Do you think the skills that you have are translatable to the corporate life?

R.K.: Oh, I think so. I think leadership and management styles and skills are transferable. Because you're working with people, ultimately. If you're a scientist working in a corner someplace, maybe not. But if you're working with people, I think I can get people to perform and work for me, and that's ultimately what most of the private sector is about.

L.G.: And it's basically the only metric that means anything in terms of evaluating your performance is the crime rate?

R.K.: I wouldn't say that. It's one metric. What we said when this administration came in is that we'd govern by the three C's-that is crime suppression, counterterrorism, and community relations, or community affairs. And I think you can look in all three areas, and you're going to see significant accomplishments in this administration.

L.G.: One of them, counterterrorism, you know it's working, I suppose, if there's no incidents. The other one, community relations-that's pretty subjective, isn't it?

R.K.: I don't know how subjective it is. We've done surveys and we have over 80 percent, in some cases over 90 percent, approval ratings in terms of service provided by cops. That says a lot about people's perception of the job, how the department is doing. We're always going to have tension in some areas. What do we do as a function? We arrest people, we give them summonses, we're the bearers of bad news, we use force, sometimes we use deadly force. So we are always going to have some tension in certain areas, but by and large when you step back, I can say this, having been around a long time, that the relationships that we have with the communities we serve are better now than they have ever been, and they've continually improved. The message to people in the field is "Hey, you work for those people, you've got to make them happy," and virtually every precinct that I go to, and I go to a community council meeting, people are happy with their precinct commander, happy with their cops, generally speaking. Sure, are there exceptions? You know, "This cop said this, that," yeah, in 23 million citizen-contacts a year.

L.G.: But in terms of the way the police department is perceived, there's a lot of emphasis, at least in the press, on the crime rate. How long can it keep going on the right trajectory? And how do you explain if it plateaus or goes up?.

R.K.: Well, let's worry about it then. It hasn't happened.

L.G.: What C.E.O.'s do you admire? You mentioned the I.B.M. guy.

R.K.: Oh.that's a good question. Obviously Jack Welch. I have his book. And [Lloyd] Blankfein from Goldman Sachs, Hank Paulson. I admire Bob Rubin. I worked for Bob Rubin in the federal government, he asked me to become the undersecretary of the Treasury, and I did that when he was there.

L.G.: And are there any particular qualities that you feel-

R.K.: Hey, the No. 1 person I admire is Mike Bloomberg because he has done a magnificent job here.

L.G.: Oh, damn, I was hoping you'd forget to say that.

R.K.: Think about where this city was in November or December 2001, and think about where it is now. Last year was a record year for tourists in the city-it's remarkable. I have the editorials. This city was going to hell in a handbasket. Homelessness was going to break out. It wasn't a question of crime going up, it was how much crime was going to go up. People would've been willing to accept, talking about crime levels, if it was going to level off in 2001, we'll take it! It was guaranteed everything was going to go bad, but we have had almost 600 fewer murders in the city than we would've had if we continued at that level. We had about 150,000 fewer index crimes. But look at the tone, the tenor, the spirit, the pace of this city, post 9/11, and you've got to attribute that to one person, in my mind. Certainly, other people have contributed, But Mike Bloomberg in terms of leading the city. My hat's off to him. Obviously he's my boss, but I'm very impressed with his leadership style.

L.G.: And is Bill Bratton doing a good job out in L.A.?

R.K.: As far as I know. People ask me that, and this is very parochial job. I have no idea what's going on in Philadelphia, Washington, Boston. I'm looking at these five boroughs, and I'm also looking at the people that we have overseas, getting information from them, but I don't know what's going on.

L.G.: People thought maybe there were some personal animus between you and Bratton because of the way they came in and criticized programs you had set in place.

R.K.: That's not the case. I don't think about that. I've done a lot of things since then, I wish him well, I think he's doing well. I just don't know.

L.G.: And same with Rudy?

R.K.: Yeah, Rudy, you know, I have no relationship with him. I went to his wedding. He invited me to his wedding.

L.G.: Which one?

R.K.: The last one.

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